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Transcript – Values in Action

by | 28 Apr, 2023 | Collaboratory Podcast, Resources, Transcripts

To ensure accessibility we are committed to providing transcripts of all our podcast episodes, including our short trailer for Season 1 – you can listen to the audio version here.

Episode 12: Values in Action

[00:00:00] Dimitrios Papalexis: That’s the reason that I keep doing this type of work because it’s quite creative and it has this opportunity to grow as a person and as a professional. And for me, that goes back to my fundamental core values of growth, freedom, creativity, social impact. For me, this type of work is very empowering cause it always challenges me to show up and improve and also lean back to my values and walk the talk. Because a lot of times we see that the solutions come from actually young people in the community.

[00:00:34] Nicole Deen: Welcome to Collaboratory. My name is Nicole Deen and today we’re going to explore some of the values, attitudes, and approaches that enable co creativity, how they can inform the work we choose to do and how we choose to do.

[00:00:48] Nicole Deen: We’ll discuss how co-creativity can be fostered and encouraged by our individual attitudes, values, and ways of being, as well as those embedded within specific projects, cultural contexts and systems. We’re joined in this exploration by two guests, Dimitrios Papalexis, and Aruna Venkatachalam, who work co-creatively within the community development, arts and corporate sectors. They’ll share with us some of their thoughts about what guides their work and what it looks like in practice.

[00:01:18] Dimitrios Papalexis: My name is Dimitrios Papalexis and I’m currently based in Sydney, Australia, and I’m the founder of Soulgen, which is a social enterprise type of consultancy, specialising in asset-based community development, storytelling, and arts for social impact.

[00:01:34] Aruna Venkatachalam: My name is Aruna. I am currently the general manager of Partnerships and International at Young Change Agents which is a social enterprise that is based in Australia, but also has aspirations to go overseas. And if I was to summarise what Young Change Agents does, it works with young people anywhere between the ages of 10 to 25 to help them to see problems in their community as opportunities for change.

And there’s opportunities for us come in the form of social entrepreneurship. We work with the enablers around those young people to try and strengthen those enablers as well. So, some examples would be educators, community organisations, government bodies who’ve got an investment in seeing young people succeed, as well as a range of organisations that work to support young people, including youth organisations as well.

[00:02:28] Nicole Deen: While Dimitrios and Aruna now both work for social enterprises in Australia, their journeys to this point have been shaped by a variety of experiences and cultural influences throughout their lives.

[00:02:40] Dimitrios Papalexis: Originally, I’m from Greece and I also lived in Australia. Then I lived for five years in Brazil, and now I’m back in Australia for six years. So, I speak Greek, English and Portuguese and some Spanish. So, I’m very creative when I have a few different skills, including theatre, dance, I was a youth worker of the year in 2019. Now I’m a founder of a social enterprise. So, I guess I’m quite versatile and I have experience interesting skills in a few different things that might not seem very related at the beginning, but it somehow everything relates.

A lot of the work I do now in Australia, I learned and developed organically in Brazil. So, things like community development, storytelling, arts, participatory approaches like involving young people and communities.

[00:03:32] Aruna Venkatachalam: I am of Indian heritage with my family being based, at least from a heritage perspective, in a place called Kerala in India. My background is a real mix of different things. I studied business and international studies. I got into the corporate sector and started working in leadership development and was very grateful for that experience, but at the same time, realised pretty quickly that corporate wasn’t for me. My values lay elsewhere, so I moved into volunteer work after a couple of years and volunteered in the Philippines for a year.

I then volunteered in Bangladesh. When I came back to Australia, I started to work in the disaster and emergency response space. I then started to work over in India with an organisation that works with a multitude of partners across India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka. After I did that, I then started working back in Australia and working in community development, international development in the strategy and capacity building space, and found myself at Young Change Agents, which I feel like is a culmination of a lot of different areas from my background.

[00:04:47] Nicole Deen: These life experiences, whether in the form of family and cultural heritage, language, work experience, and exposure to different worldviews have all combined to shape how Dimitrios and Aruna perceive the world, their role in it and how they interact with others.

These experiences have shaped their individual values and strongly influence the work they do now and how they do it. As we talked about in Collaboratory episode, “Power and Positionality”, our personal backgrounds, beliefs and values have an enormous impact on how we show up for others, and becoming aware of what drives us and what we perceive as normal or desirable is a critical part of being a skilled facilitator of co-creation. Dimitrios stresses the need for practitioners to be aware of who we are being and what we are bringing into a collaborative process.

[00:05:38] Dimitrios Papalexis: I feel the first point should be around the mindset and the model of working, because if you see yourself as a professional, which we all are, we all have different expertise, degrees that we list on our resume.

This is great, this is needed. But if we show up in the community or in organisations behind our degrees and experience and skills as providing services, only as service providers and experts, what we actually do is we are missing the opportunity to tap into all those skills in the community and young people. The stories, the resilience, the different cultures, and it’s a missed opportunity for us to grow more as people and as professionals, but also it’s a missed opportunity for the type of co-creative work that can take place. So, I feel that’s the first shift that’s required in our thinking and in the way we operate as professionals that many people are embracing slowly.

[00:06:33] Nicole Deen: The realisation that we may need to look at the mindsets, values, and associated behaviors we bring to our co-creative work can be both confronting and liberating, knowing that it’s how we show up to a process that can make or break how it turns out. Often, because these mindsets are a bit fuzzy and necessarily personal, they can be hard to talk about and reflect on, especially as they relate to our work.

However, spending a little time reflecting on why we do what we do and what drives our behaviour can help us to be more intentional about the work we choose to do, how we choose to do it, and to be able to then make a change if we see that it’s required. This can be uncomfortable in some cases, and empowering in others where you may realise that something you’ve been doing naturally, like being curious and asking questions is a mindset that’s very conducive to co-creation.

On the other hand, you might realise that you like to control what’s happening and are uncomfortable being in a space where there’s no clear plan or pathway, which when you’re in a co-created process, can limit your ability to be in that emergent space where much of the magic lies. In Dimitrios’ work through his organisation’s Soulgen in Sydney, his values around creativity and drawing on individual and community strengths have shaped the tools and frameworks he uses in his practice.

[00:07:51] Dimitrios Papalexis: Some of those are asset-based community development, which is the opposite to service delivery and a deficit approach. Asset-based community development focuses on the different assets in the community being the gifts of individuals, the physical assets, the culture, the environment, resources.And involves and invites young people and communities to be part of the changes process.

That means that we have to touch, into power dynamics, into the way our community sector and public sector is organised in terms of funding. So, it is quite disruptive, but also very powerful using those approaches like ABCD, asset-based community development, but also storytelling and ethical storytelling. And using arts such as playback theatre when it comes to hearing the stories of the people and creating that sense of community and connection.

[00:08:49] Nicole Deen: For anyone who’s not so familiar with asset-based community development or ABCD that Dimitrios has talked about, it’s an approach that encourages us to identify the assets or strengths that are present for people and communities and build off those when designing and implementing a project, rather than only looking for what’s wrong.

First developed by John L. McKnight and John P. Kretzmann. It’s a methodology that’s been used and adapted by practitioners for the past three decades, and it’s particularly effective at setting up the conditions for co-creation with community members. For more information about ABCD and how you might apply it, check out the links in the show notes for this episode.

For Aruna Venkatachalam, working from a strengths-based approach is also foundational to how Young Change Agents work. Combining her professional experience with her cultural background, she has also introduced a different way for the organisation to look at the idea of innovation.

[00:09:46] Aruna Venkatachalam: There’s this beautiful concept in Indian culture, in Hindi actually, and this word called jugaad. And jugaad talks about innovation, but innovation through adaptation, through extension, and through building on what is. And that concept has been around for so many years, hundreds and hundreds of years, and we now have this Western context of innovation, which is great because it provides another lens to what that looks like. What it does is that it adds that lens. That’s why I use the word ‘lens’ because it doesn’t change what is, and it doesn’t change the beauty and the strength of what is. So, what it does is that it allows some further insight into what innovation can look like and perhaps talks a little bit more about what the “how” might look like.

Could that jugaad, or could that extension of custodianship of country and culture happen through technology? Could it happen through a different kind of theme or idea that might not be so well explored at this point? Are there different ways that we can do that where we’re trying to solve the problem with a solution that is using a new or different way of doing that? But ultimately, the problem is something that’s been there for a while and we’re trying to extend the way that we understand how to actually solve it.

[00:11:11] Nicole Deen: As part of their work to support more young people and communities around the country, in 2019, Young Change Agents embarked on a nine-month co-design process with 202 Indigenous youth participants from regional and remote parts of the Northern Territory in Australia. Named “Lighting the Spark”, the program’s objective was to discover if there was interest from youth for entrepreneurship, explore what kinds of supports they already connect with, and the types of enterprise ideas that most resonated with young people.

This co-design process required Young Change Agents to work across cultures and with community and school leaders as well as young people directly. For Aruna, working on this kind of project required her and the organisation to understand both their own values and those of the people they wish to collaborate with if they were to work respectfully and effectively with each other over time.

[00:12:04] Aruna Venkatachalam: There are cultural values that need to be understood. So, I think it’s really important firstly, to have a good sense of emotional intelligence, to be able to read how people like to communicate and being able to work to that and work with that. And that also relates to micro examples, like, do people prefer to be having discussions one-on-one? Do people prefer to be having group led discussions because that is more valuable for them? Do we need to be considering the ages of the people in the room? Do we need to be considering the way that the room is actually structured? Are we indoors or outdoors? Really specific types of examples like that.

And then we’re also talking about cultural intelligence as well. So, it’s considering those aspects of culture, is it an individualistic culture? Is it a collectivist culture? Are we talking about strong power distance in terms of deferring to people who are considered to be more respected or older? So, we have to consider that and, as a result, in considering these varieties of cultural aspects, it then starts to uncover how decisions are made and where those motivations come from. Because it can sometimes, be quite a Western construct for us to try and unpack individual motivation, because sometimes in a situation it’s that the person who is considered to be the most respected in the room, if they speak or if they are representative of a number of people, others are okay with that. And it’s just about understanding that. It’s about reading those dynamics and being able to work with that.

And then aspects around, for example, in terms of uncovering motivations is that that can be a process that again, takes time. So, people’s, just like, I suppose you and I, our motivations change over time. Time gives us some wisdom and insight into what is actually driving that behaviour. And the other key is to understand, in a very practical sense, what kinds of initiatives people are already working on, and what are the principles that are guiding the decisions that they’ve made to work on those initiatives because, that gives us a lot of insight into what is actually driving them.

For example, we work with a number of community leaders in the NT, where they have other jobs outside of the work that they do with us. And those other jobs are also useful insights into what else drives them and what kinds of links they have with the broader community that would then be supporting this kind of work. And one of the women that we work with has made a very clear decision that she will only be working with organisations that she trusts, then believes that they’re here for the long haul. She only will work with organisations who are here to strengthen Indigenous women and Indigenous young people, and ones where we can work alongside, and we don’t have a vested interest in a predetermined outcome. And so, for us, that’s a huge source of affirmation that a decision like that has been made. And it’s also then about us determining are those values that we align with? Yes, they are. So absolutely we wanna be working in that space.

[00:15:17] Nicole Deen: Aruna’s reflections show how an awareness of our own and others’ cultural values can be integral in how we enter into co-created relationships and set up an environment of trust and respect. For more ideas of how Aruna and Young Change Agents have been intentional in doing this, have a listen to our episode “Building Trusting Relationships”.

Along with cultural values that stem from our families and communities. We also know that organisational cultures and the systems we work within can greatly influence how we work and interact with others. Dimitrios Papalexis has seen this at play in the work he does with social change organisations and funders.

[00:16:04] Dimitrios Papalexis: If we look from a systemic perspective, sometimes organisations hate dealing with uncertainty. We have particular outcomes, we are operating under an outcome focus in our sector, and there is a whole funding stream, targeted intervention. It’s all about outcomes. There are KPIs, there is pressures, and sometimes people focus on the objective.

And this is where, as I guess consultants and practitioners, we start raising questions and initiating conversation around process versus outcome. And sometimes the actual process of, it’s the actual outcome. So, for example, when we talk about building social capital, if you focus on the outcome, the actual process of relationships, community conversations, building those sociometric links, sharing stories, providing a safe space for people to share their life journey and connect and mobilise their assets, this is the actual outcome.

So, you cannot get outcomes if you don’t honor the process many times, and I feel part of our role as, I guess, facilitators and change enablers is to raise some awareness around the importance of the process and those soft skills but they are not really soft. They’re very essential in terms of facilitating like people led social change and social impact. Well, everyone wants the outcomes, but how about we reflect in terms of what’s the best process that will lead sustainable outcomes rather than recreating the same power dynamics.

So, in ABCD, we say we move at the speed of trust and the speed of relationships. So, I guess applying that to working with different organisations, who are outcome focused, there are many different points around that. So, the first is that according to my understanding, people who are in the sector is because originally, or they still have those values, they want to do good. They want to help the community. So, everyone has values that may be along the way of career and being immersed in a culture of outcomes and pressure and stress, sometimes we might forget those values or they’re in the background. So, I believe in the opportunity of people to reconnect to those values.

[00:18:13] Nicole Deen: As individual practitioners, there’s always a process to move from greater awareness of what’s important to us, to putting those values into practice. In his work with young people in Sydney, Dimitrios has had many experiences of having to work through what putting his beliefs into action actually takes.

[00:18:30] Dimitrios Papalexis: Recently I was invited to run a series of podcasting and storytelling workshops, and the whole idea was to bring podcasting as an innovative resource in that community so they can share refugee stories, but in a participatory way. So, they want to train people from refugee background to be their hosts so they can interview other people from refugee background to identify youth-related issues and opportunities and talk about their experience. A great project indeed, and I was very honoured to be involved in that.

However, what happened throughout the workshop is that we had people from different generations showing up, different age groups, which was great in terms of diversity and intergenerational project, but we also came across some dynamics. Even the fact that myself, I;m not from speaking Arabic or I’m not from that culture. So, this came up because some of the participants were not aware. So, the interesting thing in that process is that it required for me as a practitioner to pose and to face what’s happening in the present moment. And what happened was that besides my skills in conflict resolution and facilitation, young people start becoming the mediators.

So young people started translating and interpreting. They were interpreting what I was trying to teach and also what the other guest speakers were saying. And they were also mediating in terms of cultural mediation, and they even translated some of the resources. So, the problem was something that maybe we couldn’t have faced without the support of young people who threw their own generosity and leadership and their caring nature. They became the protagonist of this training and that led to an amazing intergenerational connection that happened between those people. And that’s leading now to some amazing podcasts that they are launching.

So, I guess that’s one example of how us as practitioners, with all our experience and life journey and tools and, you know, methodologies, I think there is a point where we need to reflect, we need to improve, we need to pause, and this leads to other opportunities. It’s a very different approach of thinking that we have all the answers and any program we have, we solve all the issues. There is no such thing, I feel.

[00:20:52] Aruna Venkatachalam: I think what underpins all of our work is the human-centered design process and design thinking. So as a framework that really was the foundation for this co-design process. And so, we were asking exploratory question that tried to use divergent and convergent thinking to support people to think bigger, think broader, and to come up with a range of different alternatives or solutions. Then converge that into something concrete that they could move forward with. And in our examples, being able to come up with specific solutions or suggestions that would inform the design of this program. So, using that human-centered design process was a great framework for us to be able to create some structure and some boundaries around this process.

And the other side of that I think, is understanding that we as an organisation have been doing this kind of work for about six years now but knowing that that six years has informed a lot of conversations, a lot of insight into what works with young people more broadly. And so, we were able to bring some of that thinking into the design of this program and taking a strengths-based approach, thinking about what have we already developed that would actually satisfy what these young people are asking for.

So where can we start from a base level where some of that existing thinking will really support what they’re asking for and what they say that they need. And so, where those commonalities were identified, we were able to then say, these are aspects of the programs that we could possibly continue, but they will need to be adjusted in different ways. And then in the ways that the program was adjusted, that absolutely considered country consideration, so, what I was describing before around language and culture, role models, being able to ensure that there was a strong sense of place and storytelling as fundamental principles of the program. A strong sense of identity building and pride in identity, building that into the program.

And then building, also, an understanding of how young people in the room, in programs moving forward, actually linked to each other. You know, who knows who, who shares common backgrounds and common stories, because that is incredibly important for us to be able to pictorialise and visualise that, was really important. And then once we understood that we could then build in certain activities and stories and ways of facilitation into these programs that would then be ultimately led by those in the community who wanted to support these young people.

You know, it started big by developing those guiding principles on the basis of that co-design, which then translated into how do we actually craft and structure these programs to then those brass tacks I was just talking about around what are those activities going to look like so that those principles are actually represented. There are some incredible resources out there that inform that. There’s a framework that has been developed by a group of practitioners in, I think it’s Western New South Wales, and it’s called The Eight Aboriginal Ways of Learning, and there are multiple frameworks that have been developed by incredible organisations in WA, in Victoria and Queensland around the ways that Indigenous communities learn.

But I would stress that each of those different aspects that have been developed, they’re all very place-based. They’re on the basis of communities that have been spoken to, communities that have been designed together with, and then those principles have been developed. So, in our instance, with the young people we spoke with and with the community leaders that we worked with, those kinds of principles really informed the design of our program as.

[00:25:04] Nicole Deen: While being reflexive and adapting our approach are essential in the moment, are there other things that we can do to be more intentional about how we work in order to align with our values and principles?

[00:25:15] Dimitrios Papalexis: There are practices and qualities that I intentionally bring into different types of events and training. So, in terms of practices, let’s say we want to have a different type of conversation that’s a bit more personal or it involves storytelling, sometimes we use the circle way of facilitating. It’s a type of community conversation where everyone sits around in a circle, like Indigenous communities used to do. But it’s quite often used by different groups of art of hosting and community of practices in terms of creating that safe space. So, in a circle, everyone is equal, sitting in a circle, there is a talking stick, there is an opportunity to say ‘pass’ if you don’t want to talk, you have to listen with attention and speak with intention. And it creates automatically this more grounded way for people to connect to their emotions, their stories, their values. And I use that actively, and I teach that.

Now, I feel like active listening is very therapeutic and creates that safe space. Many times we say, we listen, we talk about listening. I find myself many times not listening, like not walking the talk, and I have to pull myself back and say, what’s happen? Why am I tired? Am I stressed? Is there something that’s challenging for me? I feel like the art of listening and then asking the right questions makes people feel seen, makes people feel heard, understood, and automatically trust. You can’t fake that. 70% is body communication and 30% or less is what you say.

So, you can say or pretend you’re listening, but if you don’t, people will feel it and the level of interaction, and the deepening of the conversation will be different. So yes, there are tools that we use in terms of creating that safe space and in terms of the circle, or even visually using photography, using different modalities and arts so people can connect to themselves and each other in a more meaningful way, but also the personal qualities. Such as active listening, authentic communication, and other that we can bring into this type of work in terms of creating those safe spaces.

[00:27:19] Nicole Deen: Both Aruna and Dimitrios point to the value of creating safe spaces for people to be in as they co-create and establish relationships. Dimitrios spoke of facilitating circle discussions and the value of active listening and Aruna, the idea of celebrating identity and building on strength. What else has Aruna found to be helpful in creating the conditions for co-creation in the work she does?

[00:27:43] Aruna Venkatachalam: What creates that safe space as well is role models. Role models, who are from that community, who can lead by example and who can share their stories. And this aspect of storytelling is hugely important as well. When I’m talking about, for example, working together with Indigenous leaders and young people. Being able to have role models in the room who can share their own stories, share their own struggles, share how they’ve gotten through those struggles with some really live examples is very powerful. And doing that in a way which is culturally appropriate also means, for example, having say male-identifying and female-identifying leaders in the room who can speak to their experiences of living and growing up on country, working on country, and what that means.

Being able to frame the kinds of work that young people are doing in culturally appropriate ways. So, talking about, for example, the fact that young people are learning these skills because they are the custodians of their country and their culture and what they’re doing is not creating something new, but they’re extending a story of entrepreneurship that’s been going on for 60,000 years and it’s just been called something different. And so, this is about extending the stories of your grandparents, of your aunties, of the people that you know, and giving you a space to be able to build on those stories with your own experiences but know that you are going and strengthening what’s come before you.

It actually makes me emotional thinking about it because it’s so powerful and what it means is that it immediately creates this sense of place, and it ensures that what Indigenous young people are working with is they’re working with people from their own communities and identifying the strength that already exists. Working with those links is really critical, and so that cultural linkage and that cultural understanding is so important.

[00:29:43] Nicole Deen: If we can see that certain mindsets and values can help to create the conditions for co-creation, how might we learn these mindsets and practices ourselves? Are they innate qualities we have or don’t have? Or are there things that we can learn as we go. Dimitrios shares his insights from years of practice.

[00:30:00] Dimitrios Papalexis: I think for some people it just comes naturally. It’s the way they think, the way they work. But also, that’s why we talk about unlearning a lot of the things we learn at uni and in our first positions in the community sector, or quite different to the skills required for this type of work. And I’m not saying that universities and organisations don’t use these frameworks, but unfortunately, we see more of the other type of service delivery rather than this more aspirational capacity building work. So, I feel like it requires a lot of fun learning cause sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know. So, I guess if you don’t know, you just do your best and you might become frustrated. You might have small wins, but you do your best with what you do.

But as soon as you have opportunity to come across something that makes you pause and reflect, I think then you have a bit of space of opportunity to have a personal reflection on your values and the way you work. And then I feel like it’s a process because even if you start developing that capacity working in the sector like myself at the beginning, you will come across a lot of blocks, a lot of dynamics, a lot of different agendas, and a whole system that sometimes is not favouring this type of work. So, then it requires different skill sets and supports and communities of practice and connections. So, you are able to navigate that and to stay true to your values. It’s not an easy journey, but it’s also not easy to keep doing something that you don’t believe or is not empowering.

[00:31:31] Nicole Deen: Well, as Dimitrios says, some people may be naturally wired for collaboration, it’s within each of us to shift our mindsets and reconsider our driving beliefs and values to better enable us to do things like listen deeply, be comfortable in the unknown or the big one of being able to leave our egos at the door. It may look different for each of us, but the process always starts by looking within and then taking action to learn as we go.

[00:31:59] Dimitrios Papalexis: Yeah, it comes down to the opportunity to come across something that will inspire you in a different way. When people get the space and the time and they immersed in an experience that sometimes is life changing for them, then that facilitates the process working in that way and thinking that way and that mindset shift.

So, I feel like it’s not about knowing the right thing or the theory. Everyone knows that everyone says the right things, you know, and their mission values and vision statements and strategic planning and promotions. Everyone says the right things, but until you are immersed in a space where you have an opportunity to experience the power of this type of conversation, storytelling, asset mapping, participatory approaches, it’s very hard to experience that shift.

So, I feel like change happens through experience and people have to be willing to enter that space because of course, change takes time. It’s not easy. And until you experience participation yourself, you won’t be able to fully apply that in the community until you experience the power of storytelling and all these approaches that we are advocating for, it’s hard to believe in it so you can invest time, so you can reflect, so you can, uh, redesign your programs so you can tweak your strategic planning and start implementing this type of work. In ABCD, we talk about the gifts of head, which all the knowledge, heart, which is the emotions, the values and hands, which is the doing.

So we need to be moving, we need to be doing, we need to be sharing, we need to be connecting, I guess if we are to be immersed in a change process, that will inform our way of thinking and disrupt a traditional way of operating. And I don’t think people get enough opportunities of that because we do get busy trying to solve all the issues, which is important, but when they do, people experience a lot of insights and transformations in terms of the way they think their values, and also the power of connecting with other people who have similar passion and values and stories and getting that support. What happens is then we talk about hope.

So, then people become more hopeful that perhaps there is something we can do to enjoy more of the work that we do because everyone is working hard, don’t take me wrong, and everyone has the best intentions, but I also feel it’s important for this work to be meaningful and enjoyable for people and people to feel empowered where they work, to be able to apply those approaches. And I feel that it also requires a fundamental shift in our system in terms of the values we need to come together and to push for this type of approaches that are more co-creative and build capacity in enabling. So that becomes the new world that we want to co-create and want to see.

[00:34:53] Nicole Deen: And with that, we come to the end of this episode of Collaboratory. Thanks for joining us as we explored what values have motivated Dimitrios and Aruna and discussed what attitudes, mindsets, and behaviors have enabled their co-creative practice.

We hope you’ve enjoyed the conversation and would love to hear your thoughts and reflections about how values and mindsets have shaped your own practice. Drop us a line at Collaboratory

[00:35:23] Maya Haviland: This episode of Collaboratory was written and edited by Maya Haviland and Nicole Deen. Series producer Maya Haviland. Audio Engineering by Nick McCorriston. Music made, especially for us by Seprock. Additional research and production support by Yichen Li.

Collaboratory is produced on the lands of the Ngunawal, Ngambri and Ngunnawal people. We pay our respects and ongoing gratitude to the custodians past, present, and future of the lands on which we work and of the knowledges from which we learn.

Collaboratory is a production of the Scaffolding Cultural Co Creativity Project hosted by the Centre for Heritage and Museum Studies in the College of Arts and Social Sciences at the Australian National University. Funding is generously provided by the Australian National University Translational Fellowship scheme.